Winstein--1c

  Recordings

  Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem in 586/587 BC, not 607 BC
       as claimed by the JWs leaders, according to secular sources, the Bible,
       and even the JWs leaders
  Secular sources
  The Bible
  The JWs leaders
  Complaints about the JWs leaders' use of reference material:
       the issue of determining when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem

  Recordings
 
  "The Photo-Drama of Creation"  Charles Taze Russell 1914 
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7cF0nw5S-g
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwdiZ27PqNs

  "Fascism or Freedom" Judge Rutherford October 2, 1938
 
   The first thing he says on it is that Jesus was resurrected exactly 1935 years
ago, which in 1938 would have been 3 AD.  That's usually put around 33 AD.
(I'm guessing it's his version of Jesus' birth on Earth.)
 
  He then makes his case of equating the clergy of Jesus' time (the Pharisees)
with Catholic and Protestant (anything Christian and non-Rutherford) clergy of
Rutherford's time as Satanic, and characterizes all of both groups as fascists
who have intended to keep people from learning God's truth (Jesus' and Ruther-
ford's stances).  Rutherford characterizes his stances as having been like Je-
sus' in having been honest but persecuted.

  Fred Franz, "Divine Will" assembly, Yankee Stadium and Polo Grounds, July 27
to Aug.3, 1958

  In a 1969 interview with Nathan Knorr, he compares his claim that most clergy-
men are hypocrites, such as for agreeing with teachings about evolution, with
Jesus' accusations of hypocrisy, says God may use atomic energy for Armageddon,
and gives the JWs leaders' stance requiring JWs to refuse the medical use of
blood. (link inactive)
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68ysCiXR6rc
 
  Though the JWs leaders had called 1975 the beginning of God's 7th 1,000
year creative "day" and predicted Armageddon for it (see the entry for July,
1969), they fudged about Armageddon as 1975 drew near.  The recording below is
of Fred Franz in early or mid 1975 giving sundown of Sept.5, 1975 as the start
of God's 7th 1,000 year creative "day" but fudging about the time of Armageddon.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EvehJGCuMo
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses#.22Looking_Forward_to_1975.22_1966-1975

  Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem in 586/587 BC, not 607 BC
    as claimed by the JWs leaders, according to secular sources, the Bible,
    and even the JWs leaders

  The JWs leaders' stance is that 607 BC is when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jeru-
salem.  This is the starting date for their numerology/prophesy claim that Jesus
began to rule the Earth from heaven, and his invisible presence began to be
known on Earth, in 1914.  They claim they follow the Bible, so reject secular
evidence that contradicts it, to get their date of 607 BC.

****


  Secular sources

  Sources other than the JWs leaders give 586--587 BC for the destruction of
Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar II:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Judah
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebuchadnezzar_II
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_captivity
  http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Babylonian_captivity.aspx#1-1E1:Babylcap-
full

  Also see any encyclopedia, the web site by Alan Feuerbacher at the next link,
and "The Gentile Times Reconsidered" by Carl Olof Jonsson.
  http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/refutation-of-appendix-in-let-your.html

****


  The Bible

  One reason the JWs leaders give for their stance is that using 586/587 BC as
the time Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem would create a missing 20 years or
so in the chronology of events of the period indicated by the Bible.  Actually,
586/587 BC would only create a problem with the JWs leaders' interpretation of
those verses, which is much less serious a problem for a conservative interpre-
tation of them.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_the_Bible#Biblical_maximalism
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Minimalism
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_the_Bible

  The 607 BC date belongs in the same category as claiming the Bible requires
4004 BC or such for the creation of the Earth.  A "day" in the Genesis account
could be an indefinite period of time according to context ("in Noah's day").
When a wealth of information showed the Earth appeared millions of years earli-
er, some already understood a figurative sense of certain scriptures and ac-
cepted it and the interpretation of some others, except some young Earth crea-
tionists, adapted to it.  It's not necessary to stick to a 24 hour day interpre-
tation.  Other aspects can be thought of figuratively for theological teaching,
too.  (See "Dowsing for evidence" on p.1a cont.)
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_creation%E2%80%93evolution_controversy
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo#Natural_knowledge_and_
biblical_interpretation
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegorical_interpretations_of_Genesis

  Similarly, the 606 BC calculation made by Barbour and used by Russell is an
1800's calculation arrived at before, or independent of, the wealth of evidence
that was found--the cuneiform tablets, etc., used to date the time of the de-
struction of Jerusalem and related matters yet Russell forced as the "Biblical"
idea.  606 BC was later updated to 607 BC by Fred Franz and other JWs leaders to
get rid of the mistake of adding a year "0" between the BC and AD years yet hold
onto their 1914 date for their prophesy claim (p.1a).
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuneiform_script

  The interpretation they forced was that Jeremiah 25:11-12 and Daniel 9:1-2
meant the Jews would be exiled for 70 years.  If you counted 70 years back from
536 BC, when some people in Barbour's day thought Babylon fell to Cyrus, you got
606 BC.  More recently, the JWs leaders used the evidence that Babylon fell to
Cyrus in 539 BC, so give a range of 537-539 for that, and claim the Jews were
exiled for a 70 year period from 607 BC, their updated time for the fall of Je-
rusalem, to 537 BC.

  Jan S. Haugland's article about "The Gentile Times Reconsidered" by Carl Olof
Jonsson is at the next link.  One point to see in it is that the JWs leaders
mischaracterize the Bible as requiring an idea of 70 years of desolation for
Jerusalem whereas it only requires an idea of servitude.
  http://www.towerwatch.com/articles/the_1914_doctrine.htm

  Another of the points it makes is that the JWs leaders' NWT (see p.6b) gives
Jer.29:10 as "at Babylon" instead of "for Babylon" (RSV).

  According to the article by Alan Feuerbacher, "The basic notions in the Socie-
ty's application of the 70 years go back to at least 1823, when John Aquila
Brown published a chronology remarkably like the Watchtower Society's.  Others
expanded upon Brown's ideas, the most notable of whom was William Miller."  (For
more on the influence of Brown and Miller on Charles Taze Russell, see p.1a.)
  http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/refutation-of-appendix-in-let-your.html

  I made the following notes about an article by George Konig at
AboutBibleprophecy.com:
  http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/years.htm

  Daniel 9:1,2 summary:

  During the 1st year of the rule of Darius son of Xerxes (a Mede by descent)
  who was made ruler of the Babylonian kingdom,
  Daniel prophesied that the desolation of Jerusalem would last 70 years
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Daniel

  Jeremiah 25:9-12 summary:

  Jeremiah prophesied that God will bring Nebuchadnezzar and people of the North
  against Judah, its people, and surrounding nations and
  destroy them--make it desolate wasteland.
  These nations would then will serve the king of Babylon 70 years, then
  the Babylon king and his nation would be punished and made desolate forever.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah

  Jeremiah 29:10 summary:

  God says when the 70 years are over for Babylon,
  God will come to you and take you back there.

  One possibility is that Daniel's "desolation of Jerusalem" means captivity
  or Babylonian domination, which lasted from 609 to 539 BC.

  Another is that the Temple and Jerusalem were destroyed in 586 BC
  by the Babylonians, and the Temple was rebuilt and consecrated in 516 BC,
  70 years later.
  The captivity isn't given as lasting 70 years.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon%27s_Temple
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Temple

  2 Chronicles 36:19-21 summary:

  They burned the Temple, broke the wall of Jerusalem,
  burned the palaces, and destroyed all of value.
  Those who survived were exiled to Babylon till the kingdom of Persia came to
  power.
  The land enjoyed Sabbath rests till the 70 years spoken of by Jeremiah were
  completed.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_Chronicles

  586 BC destruction of Jerusalem, Temple destroyed
  and not in operation for 70 years--586 to 516 BC

  Zechariah 1:12, etc.
  makes a reference to a 70 year period of God being indignant about Jerusalem
and Judah, etc.

  It doesn't contradict the contention that Jeremiah's 70 years refers to
  Babylonian rule, not 70 year captivity
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Zechariah

  When 70 years began of Babylon domination of Judah:

  The Assyrian Empire dominated Judah and other nations and was conquered by
  the Babylonian empire.
  In 612 BC, the Babylonians and Medes conquered Nineveh, capital of the
  Assyrian empire, which never recovered and became unimportant.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineveh

  After the defeat of Nineveh, the last Assyrian king, Ashur-uballit II,
  fled west with most of his army.
  His rule ended in 609 BC.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashur-uballit_II

  609 BC demise of the Assyrian Empire and rise of the Babylonian Empire
  539 BC end of the Babylonian Empire
  70 years of Babylonian rule--
  the 70 year period described in Jeremiah 25:9-12 and 29:10.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonia
 
****


  The JWs leaders

  Thanks to a post by Alleymom for the following information.
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/55372/586-587-k-approach-no-vat4956-
ptolemy-josephus-needed?page=1&size=20

  The JWs leaders' literature has agreed with the dates of the cuneiform tab-
lets, etc., used by secular sources and other Bible believers for the time of
the fall of Babylon, 539 BC, and the sequence of reigns of the five kings pre-
ceding it.  This evidence gives 586/587 BC as the time of the fall of Jerusalem,
but the JWs leaders give 607 BC for the time of the fall of Jerusalem and fic-
tionalize the existence of a missing king who ruled for 20 years to make up the
difference.

  539 BC  the fall of Babylon to Cyrus

  556 BC  Nabonidus--------------------------17 years
  three months in 556 BC  Labashi-Marduk--3 months (WT says less than 9 months)
  560 BC  Neriglissar----------------------------4 years
  562 BC  Evil-merodach (Awil-Marduk)--2 years
  586 BC  Nebuchadnezzar-----------------24 years left in the 19th of his 43 years
  587 BC  Nebuchadnezzar-----------------25 years left in the 18th of his 43 years

  Jeremiah 52:5,12,13,29: Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem in his 18th regnal
year (19th if his accession year is included--2nd Kings 25:8-10).  A regnal year
begins at the start of the year following the accession to rulership.

  "Insight on the Scriptures," Vol.2, p.480, "Nebuchadnezzar": Nebuchadnezzar
ruled for 43 years.

  "Insight on the Scriptures," Vol.1, p.425, "Chaldea": Nebuchadnezzar was suc-
ceeded by Evil-merodach.

  "The Watchtower," Jan.1, 1965, p.29: Nebuchadnezzar's successors--Evil-mero-
dach ruled for two years, followed by Neriglissar, who ruled for four years,
followed by Labashi-Marduk, who ruled for less than nine months, followed by
Nabonius, who was the ruler of Babylon when Cyrus conquered it in 539 BC.

  "The Watchtower," Aug.15, 1968, p.491: Nabonidus ruled for 17 years ending
with the fall of Babylon to Cyrus.

****


  Complaints about the JWs leaders' use of reference material:
    the issue of determining when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem

  The article by Alan Feuerbacher mentioned above offers a more detailed explan-
ation of how 586/587 BC is determined for the destruction of Jerusalem by Neb-
uchadnezzar II.
  http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/refutation-of-appendix-in-let-your.html

  It also contains examples of the JWs leaders' misuse of research material.
This includes complaints from authors that the JWs leaders misrepresented those
authors' works to falsely give those authors as supportive of the JWs leaders'
claims.
  http://www.letusreason.org/JW21.htm

  Given that the JWs leaders' play prophet in requiring agreement with their
distinctive stances, the point made above by Jan S. Haugland's article about
"The Gentile Times Reconsidered" by Carl Olof Jonsson, that the JWs leaders' NWT
(see p.6b) gives Jer.29:10 as "at Babylon" instead of "for Babylon" (RSV), be-
longs in this category, too.  In deliberating on this, you don't need to be
obliged to the NWT version.
  http://www.towerwatch.com/articles/the_1914_doctrine.htm


  Also see:

  "Complaints about the JWs leaders' use of reference material: the issue of in-
telligent design" on p.1a cont.

  "Complaints about the JWs leaders' use of reference material under the heading
'We must preserve the sanctity of our stance on blood--truth and other's lives,
we're not crazy about'" on p.1a cont.

  "Complaints about the JWs leaders' use of reference material: the issue of
pedophilia" on p.5.

  "Complaints about the JWs leaders' use of reference material: the issue of the
identity of Jesus and the holy spirit" on p.6b.

  "Complaints about the JWs leaders' use of reference material: the issue of
early Christian history and related research material" on p.9.

  "Complaints about the JWs leaders' use of reference material: the issue of the
medical use of blood and major blood fractions" on p.14.